what you mean would be necessary when i also had counted the scores of OC teams. they play on a lower level and therefore their rounds are "worth" less... but since all these teams have played on the same platform, the high skilled events (CPC2, EC) its not about who beat who but just about how many rounds you won or lost against the other high skilled teams. this shows which team is the best within the spectrum of highskilled clans...
thats your interpretation of their skills, all i'm giving here is a representation of statistics. and the statistics tell us that with the matches played and the rounds earned octense is higher ranked as incomplete.
+ teams like octense maybe aren't as good as incomplete and elite but i had to take CPC2 into the table. without the scores of the CPC2 Polar would have been on top and TLR would have been around the 7th spot... now that would have been very logical wouldn't it ;)
thats exactly why i wont include OC and other lower skilled competitions. but CPC2 and EC are just the top of the notch and therefore all the matches played there are to be called high skilled.
btw, youre saying that a team shouldnt be judged on "some results", in this case the results versus the best opponents, but on true skill :S how do you want to measure true skill if without looking at their results. thats the same as saying that chelsea is the best team in the world because they have the best players. though they only won the FA Cup this year...
i can... you see its about the platform the teams played on. everyone within the platform is expected to be high skilled else they wouldnt be playing there. with CPC2 its a little bit different because due to teams dropping out before the tournament other teams (maybe less skilled) joined so the platform might have been weakened a little bit.
+ a team shouldnt be judged by its results against good teams. it should be judged by every single result it has. though the matches it playes do have to be filtered in different platforms because it wouldn't be fair if one team got it results of some low skilled cup they joined for fun included in the table
im not saying polar isnt good enough to be on top, i like the team. but they only changed two players and to think that it would be a whole different team after changing two players is just ignorant. they are still polar and so the results of the CPC2 have to count.
well (for him), i still didnt mean that you should base it all on one game :D
just that taking the big skillgap to considdering would make a better rating...
appart from the fact that SHG Open had fully open signups it also included consolation playoffs. So either these need to be cut out or the rankings will be incorrect.
No, but involving teams like kapow, GiB, nSens and marc.dk wont make them more equal, currently the ranking is between med++ and high+ teams, after adding the SHG Open it will be a ranking between med and high+ teams, which will suck
nice idea, but I think that this ranking should be just monthly, because otherwise the list is going to grow up huge, inaccurate and hard to figure out when teams and players keep changing
this kind of list made after every month or so could work pretty well
Well, if you're going to try to account for the level of "skill" in competitions, you could use a variant of the tennis system where different levels of tournament have different points. One idea would be to total up the current points of competitors in any given tournament and then use that to give a basis for weighting - it wouldn't work on the current rounds/matches system though.
I might start doing some kind of ranking system, maybe a ladder, based on results of gtv games. Generally most high-profile games are shown on gtv, so it's not hard to get results...
good one! :)
--------------- *EDIT*
i added the scores of ET Masters
and zeropoint climbed 3 spots overtaking polar, impact and cadre.
TLR's lead has become even stronger now they have a ratio of +52 (!), and dignitas still at 24 because they didn't compete.
also vae has gained one spot and have a positive score now and netrunners have joined the table on the 10th place. the bottom of the table has changed abit as elite and morrigu both gained some spots...
though it was a good tournament im not sure ill include it because alot of the matches were forfeited and as a forfeit is 0-1 instead of 0-4 some clans actually got a higher score because they forfeited instead of just losing with 0-4... this doesnt seem very fair to me. ill just wait with editing the table.
didnt know about elite and incomplete being inactive but zerobarrier are invited for etQcup, I already thought that was kind of strange but i kept them in just in case
Incomplete invited too. we are praccing like once a week. but anyway, in my opinion rankings like this are shit. I don't get why you wasted your time to write this :)
opponents arent different are you blind? look at the top of the table... you'll see that all the teams at the top of the table have more matches played then the other teams... you know why? because these are the teams that always get through to the play offs. so that means that all the teams in the top 7 have played another team from the top 7, not specifically all other teams but just a few is enough to make it pretty accurate.
and what about a team who only played 2 games against top3 teams and u rank them almost last because they lost those 2 games, although they could be eg. 5th if they didn't have the toughest opponents?
first of all i dont rank them last... the system im using does. and second of all, i cant help you played only two matches. and i also cant help you were in a group with polar and tlr but if you want to be with the top teams you'll have to prove you are one of them. and if you want to prove so, you'll have to get good results against them. now you have never played on any high platform except eurocup in which you only played 2 matches. what do you want me to do?
it actually does work on a long term update. but with only 2 tournaments there are not enough teams that have actually played multiple tournaments and got good results. just like incomplete has atm...
but if i would start with tagging points to teams it will be my own interpretation of which teams deserves what points. and thats exactly what i wanted to evade for this one.
so thats why this one is based purely on facts and not on interpretation.
hehe, you just suck :) this rating gives some indication but should not be taken as too precise ranking system.. just statistics which doens't give trophys to anyone.
you can clearly see the top 6 teams for example, in those 6 teams every clan can beat each other.. then there are the rest..
losing to dignitas gets you out of top 6, hmmm I'm missing the logic here!
and as you mentioned about how the performances etc. should be taken into count, I think it speaks for us here!the decider map vs. D was quite close ;)
tell me, how it is? TLR played ETM, CPC2 and EC and they got less matches than Dignitas who only played CPC2 and EC?
+ you gave for Dignitas, TLR and Polar. why then for Impact?
+ appreciate your work
+ in the end it's just a statistic. in poland there is saying like "there are three types of lies: small lie, big lie and statistics" :P statistics wont tell you who is the best anyway, but its always nice to check it. so all whine & flame about xRio's work is useless
The downside was common sense ? I mean I ranked aMenti higher than cdap pi and received some whine because of it, but what happened ? aMenti put cdap out as I predicted. If you read Adacores first comment thats the general direction I was planning on going with and I cant see why you don't take into consideration last EC results.
I know you wanted to do something like this but you should have come spoke to me like you asked me when I first published the first rankings.
To quote Toxic xD <3
Going off you
So NETR a team which started off 6th in my rankings then finished 4th at last EC, beat zP in an official for money, reached the play offs and was beaten by zP in the ET Masters play offs can suddenly drop 6 places ? This is where your rankings fail somewhat imo. Common sense > bare statistics :[
i didnt mean to say you did it wrong. i meant that if you're making a ranking on interpretation and sense you get a lot of flame from people who think your interpretation is "noobish" and that kind of stuff. what i did here was take stats and facts and put them into a system of maths.
this ranking isn't saying that for example incomplete is an overall worse team then k1ck or that TLR is an overall better team then Dignitas. all this ranking is saying is that TLR performed better overall at the last 2 big events. and that's where a lot of people don't understand my intention.
I might have chosen my words a bit unlucky since I am actually stating that "Now there have been a lot of discussion about who is the best ET team at the moment." and implying that my ranking gives a solution to that discussion. But it doesn't and maybe I should alter my words a bit.
So again for all the people who think that I'm giving a ranking of who is the best ET team. I'm not, it's just a summary of who's performing the best.
And to you evan, I'm sorry if I made you think that I was downgrading your ranking, of course I appreciated it. It wasn't my intention to make yours look bad.
the reason i was 'whining' was simply because at that time amenti and cdap played vs each other once, and cdap won, so if it was a proper rankings system we would have been on top of them, but your ranking system was mainly who u thought was best etc :P
what is the point in making rankings based on common sense? everybody got their own list of best teams and if everybody published their own list as article...
I said "Common sense > bare statistics :[" I didn't say base the whole rankings on common sense, me and xRio have already talked about this so you can drop your worthless point.
they had minor changes if im correct... i just meant that if the team became totally different and also different in skill (as in, it wouldn't perform on big tournaments anymore) that it would be useless to add ALIS again since they wouldn't gain nor lose places....
could you tell me why it is shit exactly... because from the 3 matches played since i made this ranking. at 2 of them the one on top in this ranking won...
+ teams like octense maybe aren't as good as incomplete and elite but i had to take CPC2 into the table. without the scores of the CPC2 Polar would have been on top and TLR would have been around the 7th spot... now that would have been very logical wouldn't it ;)
btw, youre saying that a team shouldnt be judged on "some results", in this case the results versus the best opponents, but on true skill :S how do you want to measure true skill if without looking at their results. thats the same as saying that chelsea is the best team in the world because they have the best players. though they only won the FA Cup this year...
+ a team shouldnt be judged by its results against good teams. it should be judged by every single result it has. though the matches it playes do have to be filtered in different platforms because it wouldn't be fair if one team got it results of some low skilled cup they joined for fun included in the table
polar > cadre > dignitas
?
just that taking the big skillgap to considdering would make a better rating...
okok vs kih was in OC and in some other cup so that doesnt count, but they took down alis in the qualifier for CPC2, or arent you counting qualifiers?
en silti tajuu mitä järkee tehdä jotain tämmöst :D:D
this kind of list made after every month or so could work pretty well
I might start doing some kind of ranking system, maybe a ladder, based on results of gtv games. Generally most high-profile games are shown on gtv, so it's not hard to get results...
--------------- *EDIT*
i added the scores of ET Masters
and zeropoint climbed 3 spots overtaking polar, impact and cadre.
TLR's lead has become even stronger now they have a ratio of +52 (!), and dignitas still at 24 because they didn't compete.
also vae has gained one spot and have a positive score now and netrunners have joined the table on the 10th place. the bottom of the table has changed abit as elite and morrigu both gained some spots...
though it was a good tournament im not sure ill include it because alot of the matches were forfeited and as a forfeit is 0-1 instead of 0-4 some clans actually got a higher score because they forfeited instead of just losing with 0-4... this doesnt seem very fair to me. ill just wait with editing the table.
then you should remove zerobarrier, elite and Incomplete from the list.
edit: and elite folded
and u point out the problems in your reply
So something like chess celo or tennis systems could work here as well
so thats why this one is based purely on facts and not on interpretation.
not rly, try this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonneborn-Berger_system
you can clearly see the top 6 teams for example, in those 6 teams every clan can beat each other.. then there are the rest..
cadre > u
and as you mentioned about how the performances etc. should be taken into count, I think it speaks for us here!the decider map vs. D was quite close ;)
few days ago in prac we owned them with someone who played ET first time as merc x)
ye I know it's prac but I just had to paste this :)
and gl in the next game
+ you gave
+ appreciate your work
+ in the end it's just a statistic. in poland there is saying like "there are three types of lies: small lie, big lie and statistics" :P statistics wont tell you who is the best anyway, but its always nice to check it. so all whine & flame about xRio's work is useless
+ TLR was in the group where morrigu dropped (eurocup) so they only played 2 group matches instead of 3
+ thanks for your last point :P its not my intention to tell teams they suck or something. im just composing a ranking of facts
The downside was common sense ? I mean I ranked aMenti higher than cdap pi and received some whine because of it, but what happened ? aMenti put cdap out as I predicted. If you read Adacores first comment thats the general direction I was planning on going with and I cant see why you don't take into consideration last EC results.
I know you wanted to do something like this but you should have come spoke to me like you asked me when I first published the first rankings.
To quote Toxic xD
<3
Going off you
So NETR a team which started off 6th in my rankings then finished 4th at last EC, beat zP in an official for money, reached the play offs and was beaten by zP in the ET Masters play offs can suddenly drop 6 places ? This is where your rankings fail somewhat imo. Common sense > bare statistics :[
this ranking isn't saying that for example incomplete is an overall worse team then k1ck or that TLR is an overall better team then Dignitas. all this ranking is saying is that TLR performed better overall at the last 2 big events. and that's where a lot of people don't understand my intention.
I might have chosen my words a bit unlucky since I am actually stating that "Now there have been a lot of discussion about who is the best ET team at the moment." and implying that my ranking gives a solution to that discussion. But it doesn't and maybe I should alter my words a bit.
So again for all the people who think that I'm giving a ranking of who is the best ET team. I'm not, it's just a summary of who's performing the best.
And to you evan, I'm sorry if I made you think that I was downgrading your ranking, of course I appreciated it. It wasn't my intention to make yours look bad.
the reason i was 'whining' was simply because at that time amenti and cdap played vs each other once, and cdap won, so if it was a proper rankings system we would have been on top of them, but your ranking system was mainly who u thought was best etc :P
NO HARD FEELINGS MEIGHT
this is the ranking, facts, clean numbers.
We're far from inactive tbh.
But we're far from as skilled now, we're LAN-only :D